But I would rather live in a house full of knob and tube than one of these panels. We are changing the panel Monday. Photo of a recent GTE Sylvania Zinsco circuit breaker burn up courtesy of Jeff Weissman. Only one image can be added per comment but you can post as many comments, and therefore images, as you like. What Is A Zinsco Panel And Why Should I Care? We are pleased to credit and link-to contributors. Above is an example, a Zinsco R38 Tandem circuit breaker sporting light blue toggle switches. Is my panel safe - FPE. My Missouri home was built in 1978. We have no relationship with advertisers, products, or services discussed at this website. I'm dealing with this problem in my home currently, I have both my HVAC and an electrician here. The Zinsco company was sold to GTE-Sylvania in 1973, which continued to manufacture the Zinsco panel design under the name of Sylvania-Zinsco. "How to plan and install electric wiring for homes, farms, garages, shops," Montgomery Ward Co., 83-850. There were problems found with our air handlers and they were wondering if that is what caused this Ark. GTE Sylvania Circuit Breakers Type Q, QC, QFP, R38, RC38, & HRGF. Some Zinsco electrical panels include an embossed "Magnetrip" label in the panel cover (photo, above left). According to usinspect.com, problems with Zinsco Panels . (Photos below), Shown above in a very crowded collection of circuit breakers we see two-pole Zinsco RC half-sized breakers in three different amperages. Original breakers were patented in 1950 and labeled "Magnatrip." Five additional patents would be issued for subsequent designs. Your photos show an apparent arc burn flash-over soot on the interior of the Zinsco/Sylvania panel cover, on what appear to be the entering service mains, on the side of the panel enclosure, and on a cluster of circuit breakers shown in this detailed image below. Bottom lien: An expert who opens the electrical The first Zinsco panels contained copper bus-bars and copper breaker clips. Rating with LK-15 150 Amps, LK22 225 AMP. ML12(12-24)C (Indoor) - Mod. Zinsco panels may not meet today's updated safety codes. Experts report that Federal Pacific Electric (FPE) circuit breaker panels may have three major faults that could pose a danger: 1.) US $134. I'd indeed like to see photos of the breaker panel you cite, in total, its labels, its bus bar design and its breaker details and labels. Here I'll post a closer-view excerpted from your photo. I am wondering if there is a way to tell if this is a Zinsco brand. Now required in the 2020 NEC, panel-level surge protection is key for critical circuits that power equipment in residential applications. Zinsco panels are unsafe, and we urge homeowners to consider a replacement. Some history of Unicorn Industries circuit breakers is at. Im copying other Langstaff & Sloan Inc. staff in case they have any additional thoughts. - Anonymous by private email 2019/01/30. The word Zinsco on the panel door tag, on panel labels or data tags (Zinsco panel label photo above). But watch out: there are surely plenty of other GTE panels that are a completely different design and don't have the GTE-Sylvania panel issues. Just below, the photo of a recent GTE Sylvania Zinsco circuit breaker burn-up is shown here courtesy of Jeff Weissman and observed, he reports, in a GTE-Sylvania electrical panel. Zinsco or Zinsco-Sylvania is the name given to a brand of electrical panel that was commonly installed up to the mid-1970's. It was a very popular product and installed throughout North America. Thanks! So don't assume that all-black breakers can be excluded from this unsafe Zinsco circuit breaker group. [Click to enlarge any image]. The Zinsco panel exterior is shown above and in close-up below. as providing "information systems for the European energy industry and utilities. " Zinsco circuit breakers and the buss connections they use are easily identified regardless of the loss or absence of panel labels. The panel labels may identify it as "Sylvania", Sylvania-Zinsco, or GTE-Sylvania-Zinsco, but I headed out to look at my panel and snap some photos and when I saw the design, my jaw just about dropped. In 1973, GTE-Sylvania (same owners of Zinsco) introduced their own panel and breaker design. Hi this seems to be a really helpful site, thanks! Do not touch anything inside the panel. Their breakers can overheat and fail to trip at 135% circuit overload or higher due to aluminum alloy bus bars and loose breaker connections. panel or performs further disassembly (DANGEROUS STEP) can further identify the characteristic circuit breaker details but the circuit breaker The electrical panel is also tagged with the electrician's card, Jim Wise, owner, Wise Electric. Yes, this house is indeed in Fairfax. We include photos of Zinsco breaker labels and other markings that identify Zinsco and Kearney electrical equipment. We have an affiliate partnership with Networx. Ok got pix of the stickers -- will add the images. Today Zinsco electrical panels are deemed outdated and a significant electrical hazard. MLB20(15-30)C Indoor 225A MAX. Watch out: do NOT try to open up your panel nor to remove circuit breakers yourself. or Cat.No. What advice can you give me for connecting a generator. Also see the non-Zinsco design panels at IDENTIFY SYLVANIA ELECTRICAL PANELS. toggle switch colors and unique labels should be sufficient for most inspectors and owners to identify this equipment. [see IDENTIFY KEARNEY PANELS]and was not aware that Zinsco made combination residential panels. 3. Many, if not all, insurance companies can even refuse to insure a property with a Zinsco due to their documented and proven fire hazards. The replacements for zinsco do not make the 35 amp any more. Production was halted when design flaws were discovered. Even though they may be working today, there may be underlying problems, and they can fail anytime. I see it's in Fairfax Virginia (my home for many years) and I'm guessing from the electrical inspector's tag that the home or at least the panel is from 1976. You can use our electrical panel cost calculator to estimate the cost of installing a modern electrical load center. 4-77 1977 [Lots of sketches of older-type service panels.]. Personal communication, J. Aronstein to D. Friedman, 3/6/2006, James P. Simmons: Personal communication and photographs used in this article series, J. Simmons to Daniel Friedman, 3/4/2006, 2/19/2008. Note: appearance of your Comment below may be delayed: if your comment contains an image, photograph, web link, or text that looks to the software as if it might be a web link, your posting will appear after it has been approved by a moderator. On 2018-08-18 Pending research citations the following quote is opinion: The Sylvania, GTE Sylvania, older Commander and CEB are really the same panel and it is was a very popular panel in the 70s and 80s. Hickory Grove, SC for his photos of a Kearney electrical panel. The Pick M'Amp circuit breaker, designed based on Zinsco's problem circuit breaker and bus design, was produced by Unicorn Industries. Completely by coincidence I happen to have gotten my hands on a Mr. Electric electrician today. 225 amps max. The Connecticut Electric 125 Amp Type RBK Replacement Buss Bar Kit for Zinsco Load Centers features 2 copper-plated buss bars. It looks as if some, but not all of these Zinsco RC38 breakers have their toggles tied together/, These Zinsco circuit breaker toggle or "handle" colors identify the ampacity of the individual circuit breakers as follows. The switch unit is set by a plug-in cam, the angular position of the cam when it is inserted in the breaker operating the switch unit to selectively complete one or more of the shunt current paths. If the panel you describe is of the classic Zinsco design described in these pages there is risk of breaker-bus arcing and the other hazards described for Zinsco. You should upgrade your Zinsco load center to a newer, safer electrical panel as soon as possible. Here we provide text, labels, and equipment photographs used to help identify Zinsco and GTE-Sylvania-Zinsco electrical panels and circuit breakers, and we include photographs of a Zinsco look alike marketed by Kearney. Square D panel with following breakers 100A main breaker, 100A breaker, 50A 2 pole, 3 - 20 A single pole, 2- GFCI outlets attached to side. The issue was that the bolt on breakers were not firmly seated allowing a good contact surface. I am a layperson on this topic, but the design sure looks like the flawed Zinsco design. 200 amps - $1,300 to $2,600. Connecticut Electric offers Zinsco breaker replacements. But other times not. @Robert shaner, Schedule online today and get an additional 10% off of your trip charge! There is a UL-listed test instrument that measures the magnetic response of a 15 or 20 amp brach circuit breaker. This Zinsco-Sylvania-GTE electrical panel label specifies. There is live voltage in the panel interior - you could be shocked or killed. I've been conducting professional home inspections since 2002. Some of these such as FPE involved outright fraud by people who knew perfectly well that the product did not perform properly. The idea is good but why use a garbage design? 160. Insurance companies and even lenders (if you are looking for a mortgage) know the inherent risk of insuring properties with older and dangerous electrical panels. There is live voltage in the panel interior - you could be shocked or killed. Please see ELECTRIC PANEL AMPACITY for more detailed help in answering your question. The word Magnetrip embossed in the steel electrical panel cover or on data tags in the Zinsco electrical panel. Alpha & Omega Home Inspections, Application filed by Unicorn Industries Inc.. I have an MLB20 (15-30)C indoor mod 2 breaker box, is this prone to problems? white stickers telling you not to remove those "knockout" pair of opening covers. Some of these design flaws include: Easy corrosion of the bus bar - I want to add a 30 amp breaker to the panel to add a portable generator. Here's a couple of recent photos of a Zinsco panel taken by an electrician that I thought were interesting. Be the first to rate this post. Questions & answers about the identification of Zinsco, Sylvania-Zinsco, and Kearney Electrical Panels - Zinsco-look alike Electrical Panels and Circuit Breakers. This was because the threads on the bus bar were poorly manufactured and the electricians installing them would tighten it down, but not realize that the bolt was carrying the main current due to the gap. (Click on Icons to go to social media pages.) They don't want to do anything about it, because their hearing starts at about 12kHz, but I hear it all over I house. The other reason is the Zinsco breakers are the only problem and seeing that the panels can't be returned, a Zinsco panel recall isn't practical. Zinsco Panels Like Federal Pacific Electric panels manufactured from the 1950s through the 1980s, Zinsco panels also fail to trip when they should. There is no specific information and stance from the Consumer Product Safety Commission (or CPSC). This type of panel was mainly installed in the 1970's. Besides looking at the label of the panel for the name, this panel has pastel colored breakers that are in one row down. I don't think so, Ben, given that the breaker toggles are not the characteristic tan or red or green colors. It is from 1975. No. "Simplified Electrical Wiring," Sears, Roebuck and Co., 15705 (F5428) Rev. 112. r/solar. Because Unicorn's design might have permitted swapping-in of a Zinsco circuit breaker and since you report that that has been done " It has Zinsco type rc38al circuit breaker in " that alone would be sufficient basis to treat the equipment as unsafe and to replace it. The upper and lower "Do not Remove this K.O." CONTACT Us with field reports and photos. You will not receive a notification when a response to your question has been posted. Joe's advice is in our opinion bad and unsafe. The unsafe electrical panels sold by Zinsco were prevalent between the 1960s and 1970s. Look for an electrical inspector's stamp of approval of the installation - those, if present, are dated and signed. As a homeowner, you are liable when someone is injured on your property, especially if the harm was foreseeable. We have no relationship with advertisers, products, or services discussed at this website. Replacement is not, in this case, recommended. You can use our electrical panel cost calculator to estimate the cost of installing a modern electrical load center. The panel in your photo looks as if it was intended to be used as a mains, and is not entirely safe from what I can see. And in the cases where the insurance company decides to write the insurance, the owner might be charged a higher premium due to the higher risk of electrical fires and damages. What are your thoughts about this panel set-up? They were legal during the installation and are still legal according to the standard in place at the time of installation. Third party vendors may produce "zinsco replacement" breakers but testing has shown they perform no more safely than the original ones. Electrical panel interior access should be by a licensed and trained electrician. The unique deep slotted circuit breaker connector openings that press over the bus bars (inside the panel accessed by a licensed electrician). Or use the SEARCH BOX found below to Ask a Question or Search InspectApedia. See details of the hazard at ZINSCO SYLVANIA ELECTRICAL PANELS as well as above on this page. Does the home you are buying have a Zinsco panel? [DF NOTE: I do NOT recommend this obsolete publication, though it was cited in the original. I expect your electrician to be able to confirm the design by removing the panel cover and noting the classic Zinsco bus details. Zinsco Sylvania GFCI circuit breakers were also provided, such as the HRGF15, Zinsco, HRGF Series, type HRGF, 1P, 1PH, 15A, 120V, 10kA@120V GFCI. It appears to be less than 10 years old, but with some older breakers in it.still the main should have tripped. "Basic Housing Inspection," US DHEW, S352.75 U48, p.144, out of print, but is available in most state libraries. But current electrical needs have become greater over the years and these panels are simply not up to code. - Editor. Model# is MT12MBB and House was built in 1977 in San Mateo County, California, USA. Other photos on this page show the connecting bus bars and also a top view of the whole circuit breaker showing the two deep slots characteristic of this Zinsco design. This panel, in photos above, uses a Zinsco type bus design. single pole, yellow handle. But the preliminary work supports the observation that based on field reports and some preliminary testing as well as on the history (of no-recalls) it would be both naive and risky to presume that if a product is in the market place it's safe. Zinsco electric panels jolley1859 1.6K views 2 years ago How to Upgrade an Electric Meter to 200-Amp Service (Part 1) | This Old House This Old House 2.7M views 8 years ago Hack for AFCI_GFCI. (Zinsco electrical panel photo below), 3. InspectAPedia tolerates no conflicts of interest. He did not know about the Zinsco/Sylvania problem. The full size is type Q and the two ploes are type QC. The company was sold in 1973 to GTE- Sylvania, who continued to manufacture breakers and panels to the original Zinsco design for some years; this product line is now discontinued. Turn Off the Power on All Circuits 2. Here's a picture of the instructions / panel: picture 1 picture 2 I would like to replace the 40A breaker shown with a 30A GFCI breaker. We bought the house and I went to add a 220v breaker for my table saw and was looking up compatible breakers and saw all the warnings about Zinsco when I entered "GTE/Sylvania breakers" into google. Watch out: from the panel label and external appearance of the circuit breaker toggle switches, it looks as if as your panel is one of those that are unsafe and should be replaced. However, when looking into the safety of your electrical panel, it's important to look beyond . Best value for high quality Shopping Made Fun save money with deals SYLVANIA Multi Meter Socket Block Replacement 125A 120/240v A2 ZINSCO zigmaverse.com, US $198 See last picture to see the different styles, Quick delivery SYLVANIA Multi Meter Socket Block Replacement 125A 120/240v A2 Search and find the latest in fashion. mobile home doors that open properly - all buildings need safe functional fire exit passages, Turning off any strange-behaving circuits (flickering lights) with the caveat than in an FP/FPE case "turning off" may actually leave the circuit on as the breaker may not switch off internally), Red and blue breaker switches with visible colored base, Oblong opening at wire connection terminal, Flat electrical panel bus bars in parallel fitting into two slots on each breaker, Oblong opening in plastic receiver of bus bar ends, Vertical arrows point to the flat electrical panel bus bars of a Zinsco electrical panel. Mr. Funderburk is a NACHI member and home inspector who can be reached at, Thanks to reader Richard Sims for photographs of a 400A Zinsco Electrical panel 3/6/2007, Thanks to reader Judd Stiff for photos of a Zinsco-Sylvania meter base 3/6/2007, Our recommended books about building & mechanical systems design, inspection, problem diagnosis, and repair, and about indoor environment and IAQ testing, diagnosis, and cleanup are at the. Depending on the panel's amperage (150A or 200A panels will cost more), additional electrical upgrades may also be necessary. Below are links to pictures of my electrical panel. 20 days ago. Cost to Replace a Zinsco-Sylvania Electrical Panel? The first Zinsco panels and breakers- labeled "Magnatrip"- (patent issued in 1950) had copper bus-bars and breaker clips. Challenger also used FPE and Zinsco Circuit Breakers in many Residential Panels and these are the ones that have had trouble according to many experts. A good place to start reading about proper generator hookup is Watch out: you've got the electrical panel cover off completely. It does day Sylvania and has what I assume is the model number: The inside box is a Zinsco/Sylvania model number 20-5x (7-14). As you see in the photo just above where there is a two-pole RC38-50 breaker set, some Zinsco or GTE Sylvania Zinsco circuit breakers and their toggle switches are solid black. I was skeptical, figuring he was trying to upsell me. GTE Sylvania Circuit Breakers Type Q, QC, QFP, R38, RC38, & HRGF by (mod) Zinsco Replacement Breakers Are Also Unsafe. It was also sold under the Kearney brand name. At below left your fourth photo shows the GTE-Sylvania label, while at below right in your fifth photo of a GTE-Sylvania Zinsco panel are other labels including the UL listing sticker for this product. Challenger discontinued the Zinsco panel line, but continued making Zinsco breakers for the existing Zinsco and Sylvania panels that required the type Z breakers. It is a 3 Pole 225A breaker and we would like to run 250MCM. 2, Type 1 Enclosure, 125A Max.. The photo above shows the distinctive operating handle on the door of this Zinsco electrical panel. The Zinsco Style may be labeled as Zinsco, Challenger or Sylvaina. at BACKUP ELECTRICAL GENERATORS "How to plan and install electric wiring for homes, farms, garages, shops," Montgomery Ward Co., 83-850. I am sending you a picture, can you tell if it needs to be replaced? I [will] send pictures Sylvania Electrical Panel Catalog No. So they should be treated as the same electrical panel with the same weaknesses. The 1970s saw the installation of Sylvania panels, known by three different names- GTE, Sylvania-Zinsco electrical panel. Zinsco 100-125 amp Circuit Breaker Panel Dead Front Cover $125.00 $28.75 shipping ZINSCO DEAD FROT COVER 125A 120/240V 1 PH 16 SPC LONG 19 3/8 WIDE 6 $125.00 $28.75 shipping Zinsco Magnetrip Load Center Panel Cover Dead Front $74.95 $24.99 shipping ZINSCO SWITCHGEAR COVER 600A MAX. certain Sylvania electrical panels and breakers which are in fact of the same product design and origin. GTE-Sylvania / Zinsco Panel Identification Pictures Below is a close-up of the bus connection end of a classic Zinsco circuit breaker - showing the difference between these devices. MOB20(20-40)C (Indoor) Mod.2, 225 AMPS Max. I have a buyer that wants me to put in a new panel because it might be. Watch out: do NOT try to open up your panel nor to remove circuit breakers yourself. Watch out: the panel looks corroded, rusty, unreliable as a brand-independent hazard, and of course Zinsco breakers and panels are unsafe in any event. Photographs contributed to this website by Jim P. Simmons, Mr. Electric, Licensed Master Electrician, Below right: a badly faded Sylvania electrical panel sticker. I can ask Dr Aronstein if he can test this Sylvania - Zinsco electrical panel before we disturb conditions by actually pulling breakers. Due to significant flaws in the design of the panels, after wear and tear of the breaker, the breaker and aluminum bars in the Zinsco panel melt together. You will not receive a notification when a response to your question has been posted. I have searched the web and cannot find any of the identifying marks of a Zinsco panel on the panel I have. Zinsco electrical panels are obsolete. For people who are too poor to make their homes safer by replacing questionable electrical equipment we suggest some initial or temporary hazard reduction measures: I was reading information on your website about Zinsco panels but I can't determine if my main panel and sub-panel inside the house are the affected panels.