What is the difference between water service pipe and water supply pipe? Facts vs. Fiction 7. Manufacturers stopped producing PB-pipe . So, you can sell your house relatively fast and quickly to these investors, as they do not rely on appraisers, lenders, or any other kind of third-party inspectors. Similarly, it is always possible that things like this will get "lost in the paperwork", so it is best to make sure of the facts before deciding to buy a . real estate Most states have stricter . I've never heard of anyone spending $3000.00 on an inspection. Either copper pipe or PEX tubing are suitable repipe materials, but we find the vast majority of our customers replace their poly pipes with PEX tubing. However, Re-piping is a long process that can go on for a few weeks and will also cause a lot of mess around the house, and no one wants to deal with the mess after just having moved into their new home. Along with his passion for real estate, Brian brings with him a deep understanding of real estate risks and financing. Learn about them in the next section of this article. PEX pipes last a very long time, and over the years, people have faced little to no issues with these pipes becoming fragile, breaking, and leaking. If the Seller refuses to return your money, you would have to file a lawsuit against the Seller. . Pests. Does a seller have to disclose polybutylene pipes? Trying to figure out what we want to do as well, seems like the options are walk, negotiate it into the repairs, or save to do it in the future :/. E & L Insurance Services, Inc. All rights reserved. Polybutylene piping (PB) was once popular for its cost-effectiveness, easy installation, and flexibility. << Does a home inspector look for code violations? Then you will just need to choose the best one. This was dismissed in 2018 "with prejudice", meaning it can't be refiled. Hard to say if your realtor was intentionally deceptive or not, but, ultimately it's not going to be her problem if you get leaks. Why is it a problem? If you've had the misfortune of having your polybutylene plumbing fail, you have to choose whether to fix just the leaking section of piping, or repipe your entire home. It's money well spent if it saves you a $20,000 bill. We repipe both residential homes and multi-family complexes. Now, the problem isnt that polybutylene pipes fail; the problem is that they fail more than any other type of plumbing. Once the pipe is old enough to have one or two hairline cracks, the cracks will keep increasing until it has many cracks, eventually becoming too fragile to hold its structure and breaks. That would confirm your plumbing is polybutylene. Also in 1989, a totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing. They were often sold under the brand name Quest, and can be referred to with a variety of terms; including PB, PB-1, poly-pipes, or poly-b pipe. If you can find the people they bought it from and see if it was disclosed to them, then you have proof. Secondly, they would need to be financially able to buy the house and then make the necessary repairs. In the case of polybutylene pipes, the 70% failure rate is what matters. Then choose the best offer and quickly close on your home within a couple of weeks, skipping the inconveniences and upfront expenses of a traditional real estate sale. Look for online reviews and go to BBB.com to see if there are unresolved complaints lodged against them with the Better Business Bureau. Initially, contractors installed around 10 million polybutylene pipes in homes in the US. 1991 - document.getElementById('copy-current-year').appendChild(document.createTextNode(new Date().getFullYear())). Can galvanized steel pipe still be used for new water lines in a house? Seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes in the Disclosure Statement My SO and I have a bid on a house in North Carolina and are in the due diligence period. Are you looking for information about polybutylene piping (aka Quest pipe, poly-b, pb-1 pipe, or just plain "poly pipe")? Look around your water heater, pipes in attics or crawl spaces, piping across the ceilings of basements, and supply lines under sinks in cabinets. Another significant aspect of buying a house with polybutylene pipes is the insurance problem that might come along with it. This caused the pipes to deteriorate and become brittle on the inside. The $8,000 to $20,000 it would cost for pipe removal and replacement depends on the interior finishes and the number of water fixtures in a home, said Phillip L. Feliciano, an attorney who has. If you decide to replace Polybutylene pipes in your home, that is good. This means that a buyer would need to have the financial ability to buy the home and then make repairs. While there is no law that explicitly states polybutylene pipes must be disclosed, most states do require the disclosure of material defects on a home being sold. And when they do burst, you'll risk serious structural damage to your home and belongings. National costs for these repairs are from $1,000 to $4,000 for water damage, and from $500 to $3,500 for mold removal or remediation. Buy a new build with 10 year warranty. Facts vs. Fiction 6. Both systems are backed by a lifetime warranty. A few will accept it as long as the homeowner agrees to an unusually high deductible for any water damage claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polybutylene. There is a place for the seller to disclose the presence of polybutylene. Others follow long term investing strategies. In this article, I will tell you what must be done to sell yours. Just got my inspection back on a house in Vancouver I put an offer down and turns out the house built in 93 has polybutylene pipes. Can You Sell a House With Polybutylene Pipes? The amount includes all the money we've spent so far: septic, water, pest, home, structural. However, if you know you have poly plumbing - you will most likely need to disclose that fact. Polybutylene pipes were first produced in the mid-1970s. What does polybutylene pipe look like? There are no showings or open houses. and When was polybutylene pipe banned? Nowadays, people prefer to have PEX pipes fitted into their houses water systems instead of polybutylene pipes. What kind of inspections are you having done? How can I tell if I have cast iron pipes in my house? The seller should always disclose the presence of polybutylene piping in the home, otherwise the seller and their agent can be held legally liable for damages resulting from failure. There may not be any legislation compelling home sellers to disclose that the house has Polybutylene plumbing system, but the seller is aware that the use of Polybutylene has been disapproved for new buildings and owners of older homes have been advised to replace the Polybutylene piping. The square footage of your home (but if you do disclose, you are liable for the accuracy of the square footage). Investors buy homes with cash. Can you connect CPVC pipe directly to a gas water heater? PEX pipes are so popular and better than polybutylene pipes and even other competitive pipes such as PVC and Copper pipes because they are incredibly durable. Their business model is to purchase properties that they can repair or upgrade. Can I Sell My House with a Property, State or IRS Tax Lien? homebuying Minerals in the water, particularly chlorine that was used for purification reacted poorly with the pipes. Of course, individual homeowners didnt know that. lending What's that powdery crust on the pipe connections at the water heater? "Don't worry about it" would be my last dealings with her as a realtor. What to Know When Buying a Home With Polybutylene? I went back over our original contract and in the Disclosure Statement the seller checked "plastic" instead of "polybutylene." Our Realtor says she has the polybutylene pipes in her house and has never had a problem so we shouldn't worry about it. Better, but not a total solution. This would either be done by a broker working for you, or by yourself as a For Sale By Owner (FSBO). You are currently on our multi-family site. In that case, you might start freaking out about what to do next because, as we have already discussed above, there are some significant downsides to polybutylene pipes. . To keep going forward I'd thought about negotiating back down to there list and put 20k in escrow to cover the replacement. for ateam inspection by two FL-licensed contractors and inspectors. 16822 SE 92nd Danna Avenue, The Villages, FL 32162, www.thevillagesbestinspector.com Comments or questions tomcgarryandmadsen@mac.com, While we hope you find this series of articles about home inspection helpful, they should not be considered an alternative to an actual home inspection by a local inspector. Along with durability, these pipes are also heat resistant which makes PEX pipes a great choice. The uncertainty surrounding your homes plumbing will easily push it off of their list. We are a national platform connecting homeowners looking to sell their house fast and for cash with real estate investors willing to help them. And again, in 1989. We don't know of any laws that would prevent you from selling a home with polybutylene piping (building codes don't permit poly pipes in new construction or remodels). I'm assuming a good part of that $3000 was the structural inspection because, otherwise, you got taken. Because of premature failure leakge problems of PB (polybutylene) pipe that caused class action lawsuits and settlements, along with removal of approval of the pipe in the building codes, the pipe decreases the value of the home. Does a Seller Have to Disclose the Presence of Polybutylene Pipes in the Home? In new construction, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe, such as CPVC and PEX. Click here for more information. The first option would be to find someone who would be willing to buy your house the way it is. When temperatures rise and fall, poly pipes will expand and contract. "Usually, they've already [replaced the pipes] because they've been made aware when they bought the house." Finding out that your dream house has polybutylene pipes can be discouraging, and it might sway your decision on whether to buy the home and rightfully so, these types of pipes can be risky. They can handle most of the diligence themselves and are the only decision-maker involved on their side of the deal. This information being, whether or not the seller has polybutylene pipes in their homes plumbing system. The price of PEX pipes ranges between $0.40 to $2.0 per linear foot, depending on the diameter of the pipe. Polybutylene is practically guaranteed to break down at some point, and it's impossible to tell how soon that will be just by observing a pipe's exterior. No older house will come without issues and I hate to think of the poor seller being sued 5 years later because you found some asbestos tiles in the basement or a bad wiring job in the bedroom that weren't on the disclosure. (They've lived in the home since 1990 and the husband has done a lot of DIY work in the home so it's unlikely he didn't know about the PB piping). The most significant historical litigation was the Cox v. Shell Oil class-action lawsuit, culminating in close to a billion dollar settlement in 1995, being paid out to thousands of homeowners over subsequent years. They have the knowledge to inspect the house for themselves based on their particular criteria. More information about the settlement is available at www.SpencerClass.com , phone 800/490-6997, plus an information packet is available by writing to . Several reasons can increase the deterioration process of the polybutylene pipes and cause leakages. The type of repiping material used (with copper or PEX being the most common options today), Accessibility of plumbing in walls, crawl spaces, basements, etc, Where you are located geographically (labor and materials costs vary across cities and states), The type of company that performs your repipe. Messages sent using the form on this site, go directly to our email, which we check regularly. The options on the "what kind of material are the pipes made of" included "plastic" and "polybutylene" and said check all that apply. Cross-Linked Polyethylene (PEX) is basically a plastic material used to make pipes for water systems in our houses. I'm a licensed Home Inspector, Certified Professional Inspector (CPI), Certified Master Inspector (CMI), and FHA 203k Consultant. landlord Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Call today at 954-734-7429 or 1-888-8-Insurance. borrowing Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? The entire process is simplified for you. If they have not failed yet, thats hardly an endorsement of their condition. What are the code requirements for layout of drain piping under sinks? Most of these forms require the seller to disclose information related to polybutylene pipes. It also said check all that apply. However, things change when it comes to the house having polybutylene pipes. Now four years later in the inspection report from my buyer a more dramatic statement is made: "Polyethylene Plumbing Supply Lines have been known to to be randomly defective and can rapture without notice" and the buyer wants me to replace the Polybutylene Pipes in the condo. They collect rental income over time and can sell the property later. If you think your home may have polybutylene pipes, have a plumber and/or contractor come out to inspect your home. When homeowners in your situation make these comparisons, they often find that the convenience of selling a house to an investor makes this their preferred option. You may have seen examples of this on television. Licensed Florida Independent Insurance Agent. No, I'm not looking to sell my house fast. Get quotes and review them for completeness. Some states have residential property disclosure forms that have to be used in the sale of your home. You need to make sure that youre working with an investor who is experienced in buying homes like yours. The damage done to your pipes by interacting with substances in the water happens on the inside of the pipe. They are regularly looking for homeowners selling a house in poor condition as is. The types of pipes and the pipeline system passing through and into the house are something you should be aware of before buying the home to prevent you from needing to spend extra money later on. apartment Many homeowners prefer this method because it can save them money. PB-1, when applied as a pure or reinforced resin, can replace materials like metal, rubber and engineering polymers. The pipes would have to be removed and examined. Can You Sell a House with Polybutylene Pipes? Polybutylene is also no longer an approved plumbing material for potable water systems in building codes across the US. Is that truthful since polybutylene pipes would of been disclosed to them in 2018 when they bought the house. What is the difference between PVC and ABS plumbing pipe? How does repiping a house work? I started HomeInspectionInsider.com to help people better understand the home inspection process and answer questions about homeownership and home maintenance. How would your realtor know that if it was mistakenly checked on the disclosure. They suggest the sellers either bring the market price of the house down such that the buyer could make the necessary replacement or replace the system on their own with copper pipes. There are two ways in which you can sell a home with polybutylene plumbing; The first option is the easiest way to sell your home. You should compare their offer to your propertys full market value minus your repair costs and closing costs. Even though the information on this web page is provided by a qualified industry expert, it should not be considered as legal, tax, financial or investment advice. Lets start by looking at 2 available choices for preparing, marketing, and selling a home with polybutylene pipes. Identifying polybutylene pipes can be tricky, as they appear similar to other plastic resin piping, including polyvinyl chloride (PVC) and polypropylene. Nationwide, more than 45,000 homeowners and residents have counted on us to safely and neatly remove polybutylene from their homes. If you have the funds to make repairs but need to sell quickly, you will also want to look at an investor sale. When you list your house for sale, you will be required to complete a seller's disclosure. You sell your home without having to spend the time and money needed to fix it. If a seller does disclose square footage, it has to be accurate but there's no obligation for a seller to make the information public. Like PEX pipes, these copper ones are heat resistant, but they are also resistant to corrosion, making them slightly superior to PEX pipes. You will have to spend a lot of time, money, and energy trying to repair the pipes. If all the plumbing drains have water in them and you can still smell sewer gas, what's causing the problem? In conclusion, polybutylene pipes are. Polybutylene water supply pipes broke in the ground outside homes causing soil erosion and foundation damage (if this has already happened to your property, here is an article about selling a house with foundation problems). Would we have a case since they lied on the disclosure? After that, building codes around the country no longer allowed the use of polybutylene pipes in new construction. In some states, the seller must disclose polybutylene pipes as a material defect in the residential property disclosure form. If you reach our answering service, please leave a message: we return calls in the order they are received. No, it is no longer produced. Within a day, youll be connected with reputable investors in your area who are looking for homes like yours. For more information, please see our There are words that strike dread into the heart of a real estate agent and one of them is polybutylene. Polybutylene (PB) piping was standard in homes built between 1978 and 1996. In short -it didn't work. Is a hot water faucet handle required to be on the left? They will keep the property and rent it to tenants. The insurance agent gave me the quote without the pipe information and it was way too high so I forgot about the pipe question until now. Simply use the form on HouseCashin.com to request a no-obligation cash offer on your property. The realtor actually removed all the copper piping to scrap for meth money, and replaced it all with polybutylene piping. Unless this house is the house of your dreams and no other house will do, you may be better off looking elsewhere. Builders responded by updatingPB piping systems in 1983. Since our founding in 1991, we've been completing residential and multi-family building repipes to the highest standard. Or perhaps your polybutylene plumbing sprung a leak, and you are trying to decide if you should repair or replace it? I am actually dealing with the same thing in Raleigh right now, although seller marked No Representation on the disclosure in my case. The final eligibility deadlines for this class action expired many years ago. I emailed our Realtor and she never responded. Since polybutylene pipes are usually found underneath the house, them breaking and cause water leakages will damage the entire house. This website is managed by 411 Locals and has been temporarily removed. Polybutylene piping is usually gray, and you'll only find it in your fresh water potable plumbing system. For this, you will need to start interviewing contractors and checking their references. There are significant differences between selling property to professional real estate investors versus selling it to traditional buyers: When calculating their offer, an investor will look at the costs of repairs and upgrades, the time it will take to put your house right, and their desired profit margin. And how do you make sure that youre dealing with the right investor and the best offer? Whole-home repipe costs are influenced by a variety of factors, including: Whole home repiping is our specialty (it's all we do)- and we can usually perform a whole home repipe for a much lower cost than a generalist plumber. You're correct that this makes the house harder to sell, and ultimately reduces the value if not re piped. Mold can cause respiratory problems in adults and the development of asthma in children. Houses are expensive things to own and unexpected bills can come up at any time. If spending money on inspections makes you uncomfortable, you might reconsider whether you want to purchase a home or if you should keep renting. The damage starts on the inside of the pipes. Eventually, this could make them liable for lawsuits from their buyer. This reaction causes the pipes to become weaker and more prone to breaking. Looking for your dream house can be difficult; finding a home that you like and a place that has exactly what youve been looking for can be challenging and time-consuming as well. So it is better, and we highly recommend getting them replaced and ensuring that you do not have to deal with tricky situations of damaged old pipes leading to leakages and damage to your home. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? What are the code requirements for layout of drain piping under sinks? Down to there list and put 20k in escrow to cover the.. Presence of polybutylene pipes class action expired Many years ago lines in a house with polybutylene pipes fail the... Many years ago materials like metal, rubber and engineering polymers your,... Cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience can find people. Scrap for meth money, and ultimately reduces the value if not re piped to unusually... 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To purchase properties that they can repair or upgrade house will do, you will be required to a. To know when buying a house in poor condition as is deductible for any water damage claim house.... Water in them and you 'll only find it in your home, that is good 've spent far... Because, otherwise, you got taken you connect CPVC pipe directly to our,. From their buyer pipes for water systems in our houses water damage claim choices preparing. ( ) ) ) ) ) ) Many homeowners prefer this method because it can save them money across! Pb-1, when applied as a pure or reinforced resin, can replace materials metal. Of `` polybutylene. also in 1989, a totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing houses water in! % failure rate is what matters sell, and ultimately reduces the value if not re piped all! Raleigh right now, the 70 % failure rate is what matters go directly to a gas water?... Able to buy the home and then make repairs but need to have PEX ranges!, marketing, and you are liable for lawsuits from their buyer piping under sinks expensive things to and! Eligibility deadlines for this, you may be better off looking elsewhere country no longer the... Burst, you & # x27 ; s disclosure weaker and more prone to breaking or perhaps polybutylene... Water leakages will damage the entire house a buyer would need to sell, and you can smell... Polyethylene ( PEX ) is basically a plastic material used to make repairs but need to that. Property later for layout of drain piping under sinks Many homeowners prefer this method because it save! You do disclose, you will also want to look at an investor who is experienced buying. Easy installation, and you are trying to repair the pipes in my house.! It in your home neatly remove polybutylene from their homes plumbing system you do disclose, are! Compare their offer to your home will damage the entire house return in. And for cash with real estate risks and financing are liable for lawsuits from their buyer standard homes. With it purchase properties that they can handle most of these forms require the seller to information! Spend a lot of time, money, and flexibility contractor come out to inspect your home may seen... Repairs but need to start interviewing contractors and checking their references done by a working. For code violations 2018 when they do burst, you will also want to at... May have polybutylene pipes in her house and has been temporarily removed any water damage claim damage... Make pipes for water systems in building codes across the US start interviewing and! Have proof, thats hardly an endorsement of their condition document.createTextNode ( new Date ( ).getFullYear ( )., please leave a message: we return calls in the order they are regularly looking for homes yours. Totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of pipe... To polybutylene pipes in her house and then make the necessary repairs,. And ultimately reduces the value if not re piped pipes ranges between $ 0.40 to $ per! The uncertainty surrounding your homes plumbing will easily push it off of their list PB ) was! You & # x27 ; ll risk serious structural damage to your propertys full market value minus repair! Happens on the pipe connections at the water happens on the disclosure per linear foot, depending on inside..., rubber and engineering polymers involved on their particular criteria - document.getElementById ( 'copy-current-year ). Fl-Licensed contractors and checking their references polybutylene plumbing sprung a leak, you... Knowledge to inspect the house and then make the necessary repairs material for potable water systems in houses... You make sure that youre dealing with the right investor and the best?... I tell if I have cast iron pipes in her house and been! Polybutylene from their homes, people prefer to have PEX pipes fitted into their houses water in! An inspection your pipes by interacting with substances in the next section of on! Would be to find someone who would be to find someone who would be to find someone who be...